#18 - Anita Moorthy of the European Startup Show
#18 - Anita Moorthy on what good marketing is, finding the right investors and the power of narrative.
On this episode of The First 10 Podcast, I talk to Anita Moorthy, who is the host of the European Startup Show. The European Startup show is like the sister show to this podcast, where Anita interviews startups based in different parts of Europe to find insights that will help other fast-growing entrepreneurs. She interviews them on things like counter-intuitive strategies, growth channels, mistakes, and successes.
Key Points
With idea validation, sometimes you need to balance intuition with data
Story and narrative are powerful tools when raising funding
Brand Building = Marketing + product + sales + customer service
Finding investors often means finding someone who has already been thinking about the same problem you are solving, for a long time
Show Notes
Idea Validation Episode of the European Startup Show
22 Immutable Laws of Marketing
Permission Marketing by Seth Godin
Everybody Writes by Ann Handley
Contact Details
Transcription
SPEAKERS Anita Moorthy, Conor McCarthy
Anita Moorthy 00:01
You may have 200 rejections, but the five or 10 that want to talk to you are people that have been thinking about the space long before you talk to them about it. And those are really the right people. And so if you get those type of investors, they're not going to ask you to focus too quickly.
Conor McCarthy 00:19
Hello, Hello, everyone. And welcome back to the first 10 podcast where I interview Business Builders on their first 10 customers, who they were, they found them, how they talk to them, and what effect they had on their business so that you can learn what worked and what didn't. My guest today is Anita Moorthy, host of the European startup show. So the European startup show is a great podcast. It's kind of like the sister podcast to this one, where Anita interviews startups based in different parts of Europe to find insights that will help other fast growing entrepreneurs. she advised them on things like counterintuitive strategies, growth channels, mistakes they made and successes that they had. Anita is an MIT graduate who has worked in many successful startups on three continents, including two in Europe, with a specific focus on b2b marketing. We talked about that a lot in this episode, we talked idea validation, content, marketing, brand, building and trust building, getting the right mix of marketing, customer service sales and product management. That was a really fascinating part of the podcast show offers some really great and simple ways to approach your search for your first 10 whether you're already part of your ideal customers world. And if you aren't part of that world as well. We talk a lot about raising funding. So that we haven't really dived into much on this podcast so far. In particular, when it comes to finding your first 10 investing customers. I loved her description of why getting your narrative, your story, right is of utmost importance. So please do check out any this fantastic podcast, European startup show. And without further ado, Anita Moorthy. Hey there first 10 podcast listeners. I'm here today with Anita Moorthy. Anita, first of all, thank you very, very much for taking the time to be with us here today. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Do tell us a little bit about your business story so far on what you're working on right now.
Anita Moorthy 02:15
Sure. So just really quickly about my background itself, I've been tech to be marketer for maybe 25 years of my life and what that means for those of you who may not be in that b2b tech, I basically help technology companies that sell to other businesses. And I particularly focus on the marketing. So how do we help sell whatever the company is building effectively, efficiently, and make the revenue numbers. So that's been my my role, I did it for a cyber cyber security company, before I started my own business, and then before that with a FinTech company. So that's my background. And in the process of being in this space, I've just met so many incredible entrepreneurs. And I thought when I when the pandemic hit, I was drawn to podcasts in general. And I saw that I kept listening to podcasts about how people build businesses, like how I built this by Guy Ross, and, you know, masters of scale. And, and all these podcasts really fascinated me about how people build their businesses. And I saw when I was doing that, that there wasn't anything that was particularly focused in Europe, and I felt Europe had its nuances, in terms of, you know, geography, culture, etc, that it probably would be nice to have a platform where other entrepreneurs could share their stories and help other entrepreneurs in Europe. And I feel like in general, Europe is definitely in an upswing when it comes to entrepreneurship and the startup ecosystem. And I wanted to provide a way to shine a light on that ecosystem. So in June of last year, I started this podcast, it's called the European startup show. And the podcast mainly focuses on the founders and CEOs of really interesting, inspiring and fast growing in companies in Europe. And we get their story, I asked them about their journey, how they did it. And I try to focus partly on their journey partner on what they're doing and why they're doing it. But I also tried to draw out some insights and strategies that worked for them, and just as equally said, didn't work for them and what other entrepreneurs can learn. So that's been my, my sort of incentive for starting the podcast and I'm just really enjoying and humbled by the conversations that I'm having today.
Conor McCarthy 04:56
It's, it's great. It's a brilliant podcast, it's highly worth Listen, obviously, I'll I'll include links in the show notes. And yeah, I mean, I think I think what are kind of shared podcast topic of discovering parts of the journey and kind of telling the world about them is endlessly fascinating. And you're right, there are the things that go right. And the things that go wrong, you know, because this is the first 10 show, and we're talking about the early stages. Are there any, any stories of from yourself or from people you've interviewed? About the early days of getting customers that springs to mind? Yeah,
Anita Moorthy 05:32
I mean, for me, specifically, the early days, I think, and I think it applies to probably most businesses, you want to focus on where you have a relationship, if you can. So what I did when I decided to launch the show was I reached out to people in my network that I really respect mentors of mine, and people that are really seasoned. And I put a one pager together, saying, here's what my idea is. And I think one thing I did right was, I made the, the abstract or the introduction about what a potential founder could get out of being on the show. So it was from their point of view. And I was saying, you know, what, the European entrepreneur like, ecosystem is so fantastic. And I think this is a way for you to give back and share your your successes and failures with others who want to start their own companies. And I think that really resonated. So reaching out to your network, and then putting together a value proposition that resonates with the buyer, really helped to convert those early initial outreach that I had into some fantastic names. Because if you know, I had no customers, I had no downloads, I had no metrics that I could say, this is why you need to come on my show. So I had to rely on relationship and the value itself to try and get my first initial guest. And I was really lucky to get some unicorn companies beyond my show, and the CEOs and founders of companies that are like that close 300 million, and 190 million. And so these people agreed to be on my show with absolutely no questions asked about what numbers do you have? And you know, who else have you had, they came because the person that asked them to they respect, because I got introduced through somebody mutual that they respected, and they have worked with, on going from there every time I finish an interview, and hopefully I do a good job, then ask them for for someone that they would refer. And so that's been keeping the pipeline going. And I'm trying to think about what other customers I mean, other entrepreneurs have said about this. And I think people have gone about it in different ways. So I think, my early customer. So I'll give you two case of people that I interviewed and how they did it. One is and I just wrote a blog post on this. His name is hallmark, guess Lawson. He's the CEO and founder of a company called grid in Iceland. He's a serial entrepreneur. I mean, he has started so many companies. And this is like his journey started in the data analytics field. And what he did was really interesting. He basically first talked to a lot of people about a pain that he thought they had around spreadsheets and got like anecdotal evidence, then he did throw up research and got some expert, you know, inputs from what he found on like score papers, etc. So he did that as a second step. And then the third thing he did is he said, I did like 510 dollar ads on Google. And I put different value propositions out on what I wanted to build. And that, and then I, when people clicked on it, they would be really short three question survey. And then I would ask them some more detailed questions. And this really helped him to validate his idea, you know, refine his value proposition and get his initial potential adopters. And I thought that was brilliant, just brilliant. He mean, he did this was before he put any money into building an MVP. So that's one story. Another story was this company called carto. They are based in Madrid. They are, they call themselves a spatial intelligence company. Basically, they are, their platform takes any data that you have, and can map it on a map. And if you think about when I interviewed him, this was in June, they were helping governments all over the world. Map over data and infection spread and rates on on maps to understand where the hotspots are and what kind of strategies they need to use to continue The outbreak. So really fascinating company. And I spoke to the CTO, he's the one who started the company. And when I asked him, What did he do, he actually went around, he did this by just they put out a tonne of content. So they did content marketing. And because it was a cool space, like maps, which is very visual, they would take anything and everything like little interesting concepts, and then map it. And then they would share that on LinkedIn. And they would share that on Twitter. And because of the kind of was it started to build an audience, and allowed them to get some brand visibility very early on, which then they used when they were actually going around and asking different customers. So they had some brand, as an air cover for doing cold Ouch. to customers. So that was another story, which I thought was really interesting.
Conor McCarthy 11:02
Yeah, there were two fascinating ways to go about it. I mean, yeah, maps and putting maps out there as content that is highly engaging immediately. People are like, oh, what's, what's going on here? And I love the the the other idea about, you know, doing just a little bit of idea validation. And this is, this is something that comes up again, and again, you know, it's quite a broad area. I mean, again, it's one part of the puzzle for entrepreneurs, but idea validation. How much suppose how much time and energy Do you think should be invested in idea validation? Because I know, some people can kind of get wrapped up in it, and in some cases, could talk themselves out of it if if data doesn't go a certain way? Yeah. Any thoughts on that? Yeah,
Anita Moorthy 11:45
no, I think that's a really good point. Because I think you've started with too much data analysis, you probably will not take off and do anything maybe worked for, for hallmark, because he's a real entrepreneur, and he kind of knew that he was going to do it anyways, it was just a question of refining the value proposition. So that could very well be it. I think about when I started doing this, I think if I had tried to look at download numbers, and how to monetize a podcast, etc, I would have been like, I'm not so sure. This is good idea. Like, I don't even know how podcasts are found. versus just seeing, okay, you know, what, there's, there's a niche in that there's a need for a podcast that's focused on entrepreneurship in Europe, there isn't one, and I'm going to do it because I actually love doing this. I think entrepreneurs need to balance validation, with an inherent gut feel and passion as well. And if you ask people, like even just people that I meet, naturally, I'm always curious to find out what makes these people tick. So I think it was it was a really good blend of something I love and enjoy doing with a niche that I thought there wasn't in the market. Hmm.
Conor McCarthy 13:01
Yeah, I love that. So much of so much of creating value comes back to understanding that need. And yeah, there is a certain amount of, of kind of wisdom, I suppose in trusting your gut, but but verify a little bit as well, you know, maybe running some Google ads or doing what Albert it's really, really interesting. What about failures? Because you mentioned, you know, you really dig up the dirt on people who did things that maybe didn't work out? Does that explain to mind about failures that you've had or other companies have had that you can share?
Anita Moorthy 13:34
For me, my failure was, well, it wasn't a failure, as as much as it was just, you know, I was just very early on and I and I said, Okay, I really want to get some feedback on the people who are listening to the show and what they think about it. And so I put this to array and sent it out. And I got some positive feedback. But I also got things like someone said, the interviewer doesn't seem to have a lot of experience interviewing, which was true. It was my first, you know, time doing podcasting. So obviously, that was correct. But, you know, I think you're going to have failures. For me, this was like my first, you know, here I am putting myself out trying to do this. And that's the feedback I got. And I could have very well said, Maybe this is not something that's the right thing for me to do. But instead, what I did was I just said, you know, they have a point like, what is it about what I'm doing? So I listen to podcast. So now I start. I've started doing this where ask entrepreneurs, what podcasts they listen to, and take the time to listen to some of those podcasts to understand why those podcasts are engaging to entrepreneurs, which is my primary audience. And I've started to change some of the things that I did before to improve the value that I'm providing. So that was for me, you know, an initial I don't know if you A lot of failure or a setback. But when I think about entrepreneurs and what they have said, there's been got so many of them, like I think a lot of them talk about hiring and people aspects, when they talk about what they would do differently. When I asked them, they say, I should have, like, I spoke to Chris Andrew, who's actually someone I worked at a company called hearsay says, and he was sent from us where the company was really established to establish the European market and did a fantastic job. And I was, I worked with him on the marketing aspect of it, and he was the MD for for the business in Europe. When asked him, What did you What would you do differently? He said, You know, I tried to do everything myself. And if I did it again, I would have chosen fewer geographies in Europe to expand into and hired more seasoned people with experience that could scale it. I hired people, but I hired them too late. And I think I burnt myself out in the process in the beginning. So I think those are the kind of learnings I heard a lot when I would ask people about their failures has to do with the hiring mistakes, or not hiring early enough, not hiring people with experience, were some of the things I heard.
Conor McCarthy 16:27
Yeah, that's very interesting. And but it's so it's one of those, you know, can't see the wood for the trees, experiences, when you're in it and doing everything the thought of not being in is somewhat distant, almost, you need quite a significant change agent for you to kind of go Wait a second, I need, you know, I need to hire and hire well. And the second part of that, then, I suppose is focus, you know, finding out because it's, you know, everyone wants to go abroad, I guess, to kind of cover all the bases, etc. But maybe a better way to think about it is is to do an 8020 and figure out, well, you know, what are the 20% that will give 80% of the results.
Anita Moorthy 17:05
So yeah, actually one of them. One of the interesting interviews I had was with someone who was trying to build an automation around all the manual processes that company still have, it's a company called next matter. And the CEO there Yon was very interesting. When I asked him, I said, you know, use cases of things that you want to automate in a company that's so broad, like, how are you narrowing it like that? And how do you pitch something like this to investors who want to see a focus. And he said something really interesting that I share with other entrepreneurs, which is, when it comes to something abstract, you know, there's there's some value in it, but you don't know where it's actually not a good thing to focus too early, keep it broad. And he said, in terms of the investor, he said, I have found from re raising my my first few rounds, that the right investors are those that have been thinking about this problem long before you knock on their door. And I thought, again, that was a really interesting insight. Because when entrepreneurs go to raise money, and I've seen this with my brother's an entrepreneur, they get way more rejections than they get acceptance, right. And it's very easy to again, start doubting the idea that you have and what you're trying to build. And I think what Yon said, really resonated with me in that you may have 200 rejections, but the five or 10, that want to talk to you are people that have been thinking about the space long before you talk to them about it. And those are really the right people. And so if you get those type of investors, they're not going to ask you to focus too quickly, they're going to understand the value in keeping it broad. So it's, it's an interesting way to look at it and one that I hadn't thought of, because I always thought you'd start with a very niche focus and then build up from there.
Conor McCarthy 19:05
That is fascinating, isn't it? Yeah. You think I mean, I don't have a huge amount of experience with the with with funding and raising raising money that way, but um, yeah, finding the people who already are on this journey in their own way. is is because it makes so much sense. I mean, they're hard to find, I guess, but once they're there, so Oh, yeah, of course. We're all we're all friends. We should be friends we're working on. We're thinking about the same things.
Conor McCarthy 19:32
I love that. So what's interesting as well, and again, this is kind of a first time thing is you've got lots of experience with companies going to raise money. And they are in a sense, you know, they found their first 10 actual customers a long time before, but now they're looking for almost a different type of customer. They're looking for funders. And when it comes to that, that stage or that level of finding a first 10 customers or funders, what what Have you seen what's what's been? What's been interesting that you've kind of gone? Oh, that's I didn't know things work that way or that's, you know what? That's an interesting insight.
Anita Moorthy 20:08
Yeah, so the most interesting one was one actually, I just posted a blog on this funding, because I tried to get insights from all these different podcasts that I've had, and just pulled out anything that I found interesting or insightful on funding because my brother again, he's like, I love this podcast that you're doing. I'm an entrepreneur, I have no time to listen to your podcasts, you know. So I was like, Oh, so what I've done is I'm trying to come up with themes that resonate with different entrepreneurs like hiring funding, and then trying to collect ideas across all my podcasts and putting it in one blog for these entrepreneurs who maybe podcast is not just their thing, or maybe they don't have the time. But anyway, so I just went through this exercise of funding. And one of the most interesting pieces of advice I got was from Tim Sadler, who's a co founder of a cybersecurity company called kacian. And he said to me, he said, and this was not his own insight, he said, he's seen someone else do it. The best, the most differentiating aspect of someone who does a good fundraiser versus an average fundraise, given that, let's say you have the idea, you have a few customers, you have all those metrics. So let's say you have all of that the differentiating factor is the narrative. It's the story. Because he said, if you go too big, to one investor, especially, right, Sequoia benchmark balderton. x ventures, all these companies, ventures, they have seen companies from an idea all the way to IPO. And because I've seen so many of them, they know how to see a pattern. And so they might be okay with you just telling them the idea. And they can say, Oh, yeah, this, this has potential to become something really big. But he said for everyone else. What he advises founders to do is to paint a picture of your company at scale. paint a picture of your company, as if you were going IPO today. What that prospectus to investors look like, tell that story. That's what's going to make the difference between a fantastic fundraise, and an okay, fundraise. And I thought that was really practical advice like, like, you know, just like you write out a press release, write out what your company would look like, at IPO time.
Conor McCarthy 22:41
That's fantastic advice. It really is. And I think, you know, no matter what the size of your company, you can use that. It's the what a success look like is another way to phrase that or, yeah, write that write write the press release of when we get our 100th customer times the customer raised our first round. Yeah, that's, I love that, that that idea of, of Yeah. telling a story. I mean, yeah, it's, it's, it's such a valuable skill to be able to tell this story both to your customers, or to your funders, or even to your to your staff and your the people around you. Yeah, that's, that's, that's great. I love that. Well, so just to go back to marketing for a second because you, you live very much in the world of marketing, what's been your experience, your I suppose your formal marketing training experience?
Anita Moorthy 23:34
You mean, what is my background in marketing?
Conor McCarthy 23:35
Is that what Yeah, yeah, sorry. That's a better question.
Anita Moorthy 23:39
So so my background is actually engineering and then an MBA. And then after my MBA, I joined a company called Siebel systems where I was a product manager and a product manager basically helps to define and build the product with engineering, but then also is responsible for positioning the product, creating all the collateral working with sales, the product, so that was my very initial foray into marketing. And then Ever since then, I've led marketing teams at various companies. And marketing has changed quite a bit. Over the years, like when I started, marketing was all about analysts, especially in the b2b space, it was about influencing the analysts and going to events. Hmm, those were the two things you did. This was before marchetto was an automation tool before HubSpot was a thing, right? So that's what you started with. Then it became about inbound when when HubSpot came and said, You know what, that we're doing it all wrong. We need to attract people inbound. And so it all became around content marketing, and then automation. So a combination of creating really good content, which worked, but then when you layered on with automation tools that flooded the market, suddenly b2b became robotic. And it'd be came about just flooding people with content. And I think we're kind of going full circle again, to back to basics to really building a brand, owning a trust, understanding a customer and providing value, which I think some of the b2b marketers lost a little bit. So anymore, b2b marketing has gone to change quite a bit. And what I found working in marketing is the best marketers, I think, do two things really well. One is how to build a brand for the company. And they build the brand by really connecting with the customer. They're all about speaking the language of the customer, and being very human. So I think the best best b2b marketers are those that, that have got this, right, they have understood who they are serving really, really well, and are able to create content of value to them, and thereby have built a brand that stands for something. Hmm. So that's the first thing I've seen, good marketing do. And then I second thing that really good marketers do. And I always say this, when I'm interviewing for a marketing position, I said, if you're just looking for someone who's going to come and just say, you need, you know, analysts, and you need a press release team, and you need to do, these are the five, six functions, and we need to get all this going. That's not marketing, a really good marketing person. A like a leader, a marketing leader, is one that understands how marketing can move a business lever and works really well with product and sales and customer success. To understand what the business needs at that point, it could be that they have great brand, and they have great leads, but their churn and you know, retention of customers is hopeless. And that's what then marketing needs to do. So I think good marketing is being business focused, revenue focused. And it's about understanding the customer. Really, really well
Conor McCarthy 27:20
write that down, etched in stone. That is that's very, I love that, that there are great mantras to carry around
Anita Moorthy 27:27
How I'm applying it to my own podcast is when I'm thinking about marketing, my podcast, I have a brother because he's an entrepreneur. And he's my like, I have, you know, VCs that are listening to my podcasts, I have friends of mine general people that are interested in finding out about companies that I interview. And I'm thinking about what questions to ask and you know, how to how to talk about something, I think about what would be a value to him. And I think having that mindset helps me to be focused, because if you if you think about talking to a company, you can ask them about so many different things about their business about, you know, all kinds of things. So that's been my, my secret, I guess.
Conor McCarthy 28:10
That's great. Yeah, a friend of mine once said to me, we were talking about demographics and psychographics. And, you know, that kind of segmentation stuff. And he said, you know, ideally, what you want is a blood type. You know, ideally, you want to know your customer so well, where you're able to kind of go, this is their blood type. And, you know, it was, it was a funny thing for him to say. But that idea of always having one person in mind, and when you're imagining an ID ad and creating, to talk to that person, and you can't go too far wrong, because if that person is representative of your target market, then it helps you to focus I guess, goes back to the broad, the broad and the focus thing written better. Are there any books you'd recommend that people read to understand marketing better?
Anita Moorthy 28:57
Oh, my god, there's so many books. One that a lot of people recommend is the 22. immutable laws of marketing, then, and of course, set Gordon's permission. Marketing is another great one. I've just picked up a book on writing copywriting. Everybody writes by Anne Hadley, Hadley, and I really like her. The way she writes and her point like she's written this book for marketers, I feel like how to write. It's not about like grammar and things like that. I mean, she does talk about cliches, and you know, the usual mistakes people make, but it's really focused on helping you create good content that resonates and it's engaging, which is really hard. Everybody writes, but they're very few people that write in a way that's very engaging. So I think that's a good good book for marketers who want to improve their communication or writing. There's a whole load of other ones I don't know if there any that you you you like, but I can I can think of others as well. But those are two that that come to mind,
Conor McCarthy 30:08
though that's great. There was a book a non marketing marketing book that I read recently. And I've mentioned on the podcast before it's called your music and people like Derek Severs. Now, Derek Severs started and sold CD Baby, you know, he's, he's, he's known for, you know, he's a musician he's known for various things. But he's written some really great books in the last couple years and he released your music and people last year. And it's about his experience in the music industry and trying to help musicians to, you know, to basically to kind of to be successful in the business sense as well as in the creative sense. And I was reading this book just kind of going these, these principles are the best marketing principles I've ever read. You know, just very back to basic stuff about empathy and about understanding your audience and kind of being you about, you know, as musician, again, like a bass being unashamedly you in what you do. Don't try to be a different. Don't try to present yourself as something you're not. Yes, your audience will sniff it out. Well, you won't have an audience. Yeah.
Anita Moorthy 31:13
This is going back to that whole point about the marketing, coming full circle on and becoming much more human. I think the best marketers are those that really are fascinated, curious and understand human human beings, how they think and how to persuade them, like the psychology bit is interesting bit. Another one, just from a tactical perspective that I've heard some of the entrepreneurs that I've had on my show talk about is traction, which is a book that is written by the guy who started Duck Duck, go, you know, the search engine, and he's put out like 17 channels for marketing, based on what your business may be. So everything from affiliate marketing, content marketing, SEO, so he's got a channel and then a chapter on each channel. And I've heard a lot of entrepreneurs say it helped. I spoke to this one company, they're in cryptocurrency trading, they have no marketers. And they followed that traction book. And they've got 16,000 investors using their platform with zero marketers.
Conor McCarthy 32:22
Wow, something's working.
Anita Moorthy 32:26
So I downloaded the book, and I read it and yeah, it's it's really interesting and very practical guide.
Conor McCarthy 32:31
Okay, brilliant on Alex, do that in the show notes as well. What practical advice would you give to someone who is out there starting to find their first 10? customers?
Anita Moorthy 32:40
Yeah, it's, it's a good, it's a really good question. And you know, what, I'm gonna make sure that I talk about your podcast on my podcast, because getting those 10 customers is definitely you know, that that hump that people have to go through. So I think it's great that you're doing a podcast on it. By the way, what I've seen is people that are hyper targeted. And so the first thing you want to do is, understand who your dream customers are, make a list. Make a list of your dream customers. leverage your network, to see if you have any warm intros that you can do. And then, if you don't have that, like, let's say you're trying to build something for an audience that you don't have that network for. The other thing that I've seen, from some of the entrepreneurs that I've had on my show, say is, know where they are, if they're not in your network, they're part of some community, go join those communities, and start engaging with them. start engaging with them, start providing value, give them your point of view, build some familiarity first. And then reach out and see if you can have a conversation, an informational call with them. And don't ask for anything, just maybe share something that you're doing, and get advice from them and build that trust and relationship. And that can help you I think, get your first 10 customers. So either through finding out a community with your customers already hanging out, or making your dream list. I mean, first make your dream list and see if you have it in your network. If you don't, then I think the community aspect may be the way to go.
Conor McCarthy 34:23
Fantastic. I think that's a great place to wrap up. Is there anything else you'd like to tell us about your work? Where can people find you?
Anita Moorthy 34:30
Yeah, so the best place to find all these interviews that have done with entrepreneurs all across Europe, and I have to say, just phenomenally Amazing, amazing people from baltics, you know, from Spain, from France everywhere, is it's called the European startup show.com. And if you go to episodes, you'll see all of them. And there's a blog, like I said that I've just published some of the insights for those of you that are not podcast people, although I would highly read And actually listening to some of these podcasts. And yeah, that would be the best place. And you can follow me. I'll give you, Connor all my details on LinkedIn, and Twitter and happy to help anybody and everybody who who needs it.
Conor McCarthy 35:13
Fantastic. Thank you so much for your time and your smarts and for sharing all of the above, are include everything in the show notes, of course. Yeah, thanks very much.
Anita Moorthy 35:23
Thank you, Conor, for having me on the show. And like I said, Keep up the good work. I think it's a really valuable thing you're doing.
Conor McCarthy 35:25
That's a wrap. I hope you enjoyed this episode and that there was something in there that was actionable and insightful for your business. Do check out the show notes for more information on what we discussed, as well as ways to contact my guest. And it would really make by year if you could help me grow the podcast by leaving a rating or even a review. Helping you identify and create those first 10 customers is what I do. So if you like what you hear on this podcast and want more information, including a bunch of free resources on how to find your first customers and grow your business, do check out www.first10podcast.com, or find me on Twitter @TheFirst10Pod.
